"Goshen, formerly Darkcode" (thedarkestofallcodes)
09/25/2014 at 12:47 • Filed to: FORD, ROVER, SUBARU, MITSUBISHI, TOYOTA, RENAULT, RENAULTSPORT, MERCEDES-BENZ, BMW, ABARTH, FIAT, LANCIA, ALFA ROMEO, VOLVO, SAAB, MINI, COOPER, COSWORTH, INTEGRALE, NISSAN, VOLKSWAGEN, GOLF, GTI |  0
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Despite the overseas reality, we in the Old World are more limited regarding high performance cars, largely for physical and to some extent also social reasons. Supercars may be the reigning kings of the autobahnen and autostradas, but they're too expensive for the average person, too wide for many roads, and attract too much attention for some. Muscle cars offer a more favourable speed-for-money ratio, but they're still too large and draw too much attention. Automatically excluding the previously mentioned vehicles, what could be considered a real-world performance car in Europe?
So far the list I made in the top of my head was:
- Anything Cosworth
- V8 Rovers
- Turbo Imprezas and Lancers
- Anything Renaultsport
- 190E 2,3-16V (debatable)
- E30 and E36 M3
- ST and RS cars
- Abarth cars
- Delta Integrale
- Turbo Volvos and Saabs
- Mini Cooper/S/1275GT
- Sunny GTI-R
- Golf GTI/R32/R
- 205 and 306 GTI
Obviously I'm certain there are a lot more I can't remember. So my continental breathen, which realistic performance cars am I missing?
Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 12:53 |
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Mondeo ST and ST diesel. The diesel especially is quick but very useable and cheap-ish to run.
Get it chipped and blank the EGR and you get some nice cheap power gains too.
Sweet Trav
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 12:54 |
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Mitsubishi conquest is the only one that comes to mind.
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Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> Sweet Trav
09/25/2014 at 12:56 |
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You mean Starion?
Jedidiah
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 12:56 |
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I've never been to Europe, but it seems way more difficult to own a working-man's performance/luxury machine over there than the US.
You're list looks pretty comprehensive.
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Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
09/25/2014 at 12:56 |
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Didn't know there was a diesel ST, but I did forget about the ST220.
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Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 12:58 |
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Yeah they're fairly popular around here since you can get 40 ish mpg, keep up with most warm/hot hatches and have enough room for the school run etc. Not to mention they're getting fairly cheap now.
KnowsAboutCars
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 12:59 |
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Fabia RS and Octavia RS
309 GTI , 104 ZS 2 and 405 Mi16
Polo GTI and GT G40
Clio Williams
S13 and S14 200sx
Do imports count?
Starlet Glanza V , Caldina GT-T and Supra
Legnum VR-4
Legacy GT-B
Skyline GT-(S)(R)
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Sweet Trav
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 12:59 |
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Well now I've gone and screwed the glass house. Whoops. Was marketed as a Conquest in the states as a Mopar product.
#mixedmetaphors #mixedbrands
Svend
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 13:00 |
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Ford Fiesta XR2, Escort XR3 and Sierra XR4 s.
XR2 Mk1/2/3
Escort XR3
Sierra XR4
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Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> KnowsAboutCars
09/25/2014 at 13:10 |
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Do imports count?
Yes.
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Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> Svend
09/25/2014 at 13:11 |
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I had forgotten about the XRs, there was even an XR4x4 Sierra which was pretty much a cut-price Audi Quattro alternative. Which also flew by my head, damned.
twochevrons
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 13:19 |
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You could add the Citroën BX GTI 16v and CX Turbo to that list, too. They're quick, practical enough to use everyday (my Dad daily-drives a BX 16v), and can be had very cheaply.
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Svend
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 13:26 |
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Ye', the XR's were the follow on from what Ford did to the Mk1 and 2 Escorts but more mainstream and lighter on the pockets and a response to VW GTis at the time. There were everyones affordable sports cars you could driver to work monday to friday then when the weekends rolled by you could blast them around A and B roads.
KirkyV
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/25/2014 at 13:29 |
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Well, any decent hot hatch, essentially. They're our muscle car equivalent, in a lot of ways: regular cars, with fun bits bolted on - though, owing to the nature of our roads and culture, those bits tend to have more to do with going round corners in an exuberant fashion than shooting off between the lights - that regular people can actually own.
My pick's the 106 GTi, but then, it would be.
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Svend
> Jedidiah
09/25/2014 at 13:41 |
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The 'working-mans performance car' is very easy to own (hell every car company has a performance version of each model).
Working-mans performance and luxury machine are two very different categories. My post man drives a BMW M5 with Competition Pack and he buys new each year (saying that he's had four BMWs all fully specced with chrome and carbon fibre add ons up in the last three years 650/3 Series saloon/X6).
I would say supercars are luxury and prestiges brands like Rolls Royce, etc... are not very cost friendly on the pocket.
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Jedidiah
> Svend
09/25/2014 at 13:46 |
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Most people don't think BMW when you think working man.
He must be a well-paid postman or in debt.
duurtlang
> Jedidiah
09/25/2014 at 14:09 |
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He's right about separating luxury from performance. Lots of relatively slow luxury vehicles on the roads here. There's a reason the midsize sedan segment you've got in the US has shrunk a lot or has almost entirely disappeared in Europe, depending how you look at it. Cars you know as the Acura TSX and Buick Regal are regular non-luxury vehicles here, and their segment is shrinking in favor of luxury vehicles. There are very few very decently selling basic vehicles left in that class, vehicles which clearly slot below (in luxury) the two vehicles I mentioned.
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Svend
> Jedidiah
09/25/2014 at 14:10 |
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I think BMWs a very much a working-mans car now. Every Jack Jones is driving a 1, 2, 3 and 4 Series not to mention all the X1, 3 and 5s. A good-ish 3 Series can be had for the same money as a mid to top spec Ford Mondeo. 6 Series are probably considered a higher up but still easily affordable car but other than that not even Mercedes, Jaguar or Land Rover are considered special unless it's an all singing and all dancing top of the range car as they car all be bought at pretty much affordable prices and if you want a few ££££'s knocked off the price still you can haggle or use a car brokers who can usually knock £3,000 off the list price straight away.
He's very frugal with his money and doesn't buy anything considered a luxury but likes a BMW. He doesn't look after it other than to run an industrial pressure washer over it each day if it gets dirty (though he only ever cleaned the front, sides and rear of the X6 as he couldn't reach the roof (his words)).
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KirkyV
> Jedidiah
09/25/2014 at 14:29 |
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The only saloon/sedan of any variety in the UK's 'top ten best selling car' list is the BMW 3-series, at - I believe - number 6. They're affordable on a lot of people's budgets these days.